|Auf dieser Seite werden Abschnitte automatisch archiviert, deren jüngster Beitrag mehr als 365 Tage zurückliegt und die mindestens einen signierten Beitrag enthalten.|
You can leave me a message in English or German.... --Metrancya
Map of private passengers companies in Germany[Quelltext bearbeiten]
I am trying to list all the private companies offering regular passengers transport in Germany (and in all Europe, in case you are interested). I found your map which is really great.
I just have some questions:
- why is not Locomore not included (I have seen they went bankrupt last week but still they have offered service in 2017)?
- same question for Euro-Express Autozug: why is their offer not included in your map? It is because it is only charter service
- No problem @Pperennes: ;)
- You probably mean File:D-A-Wettbewerber-EVU.png and / or File:D-A-Independent inter-city rail.png. Both are slightly different which requires some future work for me to be done. In fact I have a new file here with Locomore included but I am waiting for the next week before I will update both files (they are outdated anyway...). Locomore indeed is bankrupt (they are rail enthusiasts but that will not help them without someone who is willing to invest...). Their insolvency might be temporary but good news (if there is any) will not be communicated before next week as it seems. They claim that they only temporarily suspended their operations but unfortunately the conditions in the German rail passenger market for inter-city rail passenger services are so extremely uncomfortable, that the future of Locomore (and their train) looks quite bleak... It is not by chance that rail passenger companies do not enter the German market on long-distance (inter-city) passenger rail services. As an example, the powerful SNCF never really entered the German market because they don't see any chance to earn money.
- For passenger rail services in Germany it is absolutely necessary to distinguish between short-distance (regional & commuter) rail services and long-distance (inter-city) rail services. In German language: "Schienenpersonenfernverkehr", abbr. SPFV. As you can see from this german "bandworm word", it is an artificial construct, that first appeared in some German law that nobody really wants to read. In short, if you distinguish between short-range and long-range passenger rail services in Germany, the threshold between short-range and long-range is an average travelling distance for a passenger in one of those trains of 50 km. If the average travelling distance is shorter, it is a "short-distance passenger rail service", if it is longer it is a "long-haul" or "long-distance" or "inter-city passenger rail service". So you can have the really weird situation, that a "short-distance" passenger rail service operates over a total distance of 900 km, while the "long-range" passenger rail service is terminating after 550 km or so. German law. Nobody needs to understand that. But it nevertheless has some practical consequences. Trains in which passengers (on average) do not travel over distances of more than 50 km are paid for by the german regional and local governments. On the other hand side, trains which carry passengers over more than 50 km (on average) are not allowed to receive government money. They have to be operated in a fully self-sufficient manner. So there is some competition between slow "local" trains which are quite cheap over long distances and fast inter-city rail services which are much more expensive. This kind of competition makes it very hard for long-distance passenger rail service providers to survive - and that is the main reason why there are so few (private) inter-city rail companies in Germany.
- There are only very few private passenger rail companies in Germany offering self-sufficient long-distance passenger rail services on schedule. For normal passenger service in regular and scheduled daylight operation it is (was) just Locomore (LOC), Hamburg-Köln-Express (HKX) and Harz-Elbe-Express (HEX) - plus the Thalys. The HKX is operated by BahnTouristikExpress (BTE or BTEX). Both BTE and HKX are owned by RDC, the RailroadDevelopmentCorporation from the US. The HEX is (through some daughter companies) owned by transdev. The Thalys is a joint-venture between SNCF / SNCB. The alex (ALX) I provided in my map is already a boarder case. Yes, it operates long-distance trains together with the Czech ČD between Munich and Prague. Yes, it operates trains as EuroCity. Yes, it is a train from a private company. But the train operators also receive money from German regional governments for operating a local train service - and indeed the ALX is a hybrid between a self-sufficent long-distance train and a local train that receives money from German communal offices. The alex by the way belongs to Laenderbahn, which is a 100% subsidiary of Netinera. Netinera is a company owned (by 51%) by Ferrovie dello Stato Italiane, the Italian State operator.... Is that private?
- Beyond long-distance daylight operations, private railway companies found niches in scheduled (and long-distance) overnight motorail services, scheduled regular night trains with sleeper cars - and non-regular and often non-scheduled charter services (in almost all cases also night trains). there are in total five operators of these trains: BahnTouristik Express (BTE) owned by RDC, Euro-Express (EEX) owned by "Müller-Touristik" and Urlaubs-Express (UEX) owned by MSM group / train4you. MSM and train4you are owned by the same person, a businessman from Cologne. These few private companies dominate the market in privately operated night trains / motorail trains in Germany - and they also dominate anytghing that is possible through charter services in Germany. In fact, these three (four) companies cooperate in some respect - they share at least in part the same operative personnel at car terminals, for example. In addition to these three (four) train operators, there is the small private company "Georg Verkehrsorganisation", which - together with the Swedish Snälltåget (which is a transdev company) - operates the "Berlin-Night Express".
- Back to EEX, UEX and BTE. BTE provides a successful overnight motorail line between Hamburg and Lörrach. In addition to the motorail services, it is also a night train with sleepers, that serves two stations for passengers without cars: Hamburg-Altona and Freiburg Main Station. Passengers with cars have to use Hamburg-Altona and Lörrach car terminal instead. A slightly complex picture but the journey is very easy to book online - and BTE offers a line that operates all-year round.
- EEX on the other hand side will start its operations on 19. May 2017. Mainly it will be a motorail service between Düsseldorf Main Station and Verona Porta Nuova - but passengers without car will also be transported. Only these two stations, Düsseldorf main station and Verona Porta Nuova are served. EEX (the operator) has a very complex booking procedure (not online and it is a full contract with 20% to be paid in advance). That is far away from the procedure normally used in conjunction with regular and scheduled rail services - it rather resembles that of a charter operator. On the other hand side, EEX is a train operator, that heavily relies on the Dutch market. Although the trains start in Düsseldorf and therefore in Germany, maybe 80-90% of all passengers are Dutch (for historical reasons - there was a "slaaptrein" provider in the Netherlands also called "EuroExpress" that has nothing to do with the current Euro-Express train operator). EEX has a very strong partner in the Netherlands, the online travel service treinreiswinkel.nl. It is much easier to book here - now. Back in the time, when I prepared File:D-A-Wettbewerber-EVU.png there was only the very complex procedure with EEX - so I decided that it is not worth to include... Maybe I would do it differently right now... But I included the connection in a different map of mine that outlines motorail services from / to Germany/Austria, see File:D-A-Autoreisezug.png.
- And finally UEX Urlaubs Express. They silently started their motorail / night train operation on 12. May 2017 with two connections: Hamburg-Lörrach and Hamburg-Verona. From what I read (they really started silently without much media buzz), the Verona connection started successfully with a long train with a lot of cars and passengers, while the connection between Hamburg and Lörrach was not so crowded. But anyway, UEX is doing something, that the other night train operators are not doing: it offers a lot more stations for overnight travellers without cars to enter and to leave the trains (around 10 train stations and not just 2). Therefore it is a full and true night-train service with sleeping cars in addition to the motorail function. That distinguishes it from the other motorail / night train operators (EEX, BTE, Berlin-Night-Express).
- Hope I could be of help a bit. I did not discuss the private rail companies offering short-distance passenger rail services - there are a lot of them in contrast to those offering long-distance passenger services. In case you need more info I would recommend you the following forum (many German-speaking railway professionals (Germany, Austria, Switzerland) are posting there - plus a lot of german-speaking professionals from Eastern European countries. general (mostly Germany) Austria & Switzerland Europe & World. Main language is german - but questions in english will always be answered in english.... (I am not a member there because I am not a rail professional ;) ) --Metrancya (Diskussion) 02:33, 16. Mai 2017 (CEST)
Wieso ist "nationalistischer Blödsinn, Copy & Paste aus der Geschichte Ungarns, passt hier nicht"?? Bis 1920 zum Vertreg von Trianon war Prekmurje die teile von Comitat Zala und Vas. Ich habe keine nationalistische dinge beigefürt. Es leben viele Ungarner in diesem Gebiet. Deutsche wurden vertrieben. (Diskussion) 10:49, 30. Mai 2017 (CEST)
Quellen sind mühsam[Quelltext bearbeiten]
Zu  Ja, ich weiss, zu jedem Fitzel eine Quelle anfügen zu müssen ist manchmal anstrengend. Doch es ist auch unverzichtbar, denn das hier ist kein Forum, sondern eine Enzyklopädie. Da müssen Leser in der Lage sein, den Wahrheitsgehalt selbst zu prüfen. Sonst ist das alles nur Geschreibsel. --Traumflug (Diskussion) 03:12, 15. Aug. 2017 (CEST)
- Du hast recht, aber die Seite im Handelsregister ist eine dynamische. Da hatte ich ein Probblem mit. --Metrancya (Diskussion) 11:33, 15. Aug. 2017 (CEST)
Mein Edit korrigiert zwar ein paar Seltsamkeiten, aber leider funktionieren die Links alle nicht mehr. Auf Wikidata scheinen die Links aber aktualisiert worden zu sein. Persönlich fände ich es besser, die Links von Wikidata einzubinden, weiß aber nicht, wie hier gerade die Stimmung bezgl. Wikidata ist (in meiner Heimat enwiki ist Wikidata gerade nicht sehr populär). Viele Grüße, Kusma (Diskussion) 23:19, 10. Okt. 2017 (CEST)
- @Kusma: Habe es gerade überprüft. Es sind die links, die auf .html enden. Die anderen scheinen noch zu funktionieren. Auch waren noch weitere Fehler mit ß drin, die ich korrigiert habe. Es scheint, bei den ß-Fehlern war ich derjenige, der die über einen ASCII-Editor reingebracht hat.... Mit wikidata habe ich keine guten Erfahrungen ... --Metrancya (Diskussion) 23:58, 10. Okt. 2017 (CEST)