Diskussion:Górnośląsko-Zagłębiowska Metropolia
Please help
[Quelltext bearbeiten](verschoben von Wikipedia Diskussion:Administratoren#please help --Fritz @ 22:11, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST))
Benutzer:AHZ vandalise arcicle Metropole Kattowitz / Metropolregion Kattowitz. He's always revert. Name "Metropolregion Kattowitz" is wrong. Metropole Kattowitz is not Metropolregion. This is city union. This is "administrative" city union. Official polish name: "Metropolia Katowice" or "Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny"! Again - Metropole Kattowitz is not Metropolregion, this is city union - official polish name : "Metropolia Katowice" or "Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny"! Please help. Please move arcicle Metropolregion Kattowitz -> Metropole Kattowitz. LUCPOL 21:42, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
Könnte sich das mal jemand anschauen, der Polnisch kann? Vielleicht ist es ja nur ein Mißverständnis. --Fritz @ 22:11, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- was auch immer das hier zu suchen hat -- ich hab die copy'n'paste-verschiebung jetzt mal richtig gemacht, ob die verschiebung an sich sinnvoll war, kann ich nicht beurteilen. wäre gut, wenn jemand mit mehr sachverstand nochmal checkt, ob das in ordnung war. -- ∂ 22:13, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- nachtrag: Benutzer:Sicherlich hat's zurückverschoben. -- ∂ 22:14, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
Thank you for move arcicle Metropolregion Kattowitz -> Metropole Kattowitz. LUCPOL 22:15, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- I moved it back; i makes no sense to make a word by word translation. As it is visible the German of LUCPOL still needs some improvement so maybe it would by usefull for him to use the talk page of the article - and please in english so maybe more people could join the discussion (the discussion on his talk page in polish is probably for most here not understandable ;) ) ...Sicherlich Post 22:20, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
Name "Metropolregion Kattowitz" is wrong. Metropole Kattowitz is not Metropolregion. This is city union. This is "administrative" city union. Official polish name: "Metropolia Katowice" or "Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny"!.
Polish name "Metropolia" = german name "Metropole" and polish name "Katowice" = german name "Kattowitz". Or what? You all think :( How "thing" clarify?! LUCPOL 22:29, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
I wrote something on Benutzer Diskussion:LUCPOL. Please continue there! --Fritz @ 22:32, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
Metropole oder nicht
[Quelltext bearbeiten]Sorry for using german in following - just I think this is a dicussion about the german language so it is not usefull to discuss this in a language which maybe uses the word different ...
IMO is Metropole mehr oder weniger eine große Stadt: der begriff ist sehr schwammig wie man auch im Wikipedia-Artikel nachlesen kann. allerdings ist IMO damit eine Stadt gemeint; man sagt ja auch nicht "Metropole Ruhrgebiet"?! ;) ..... ob der begriff "Metropolregion" der perfekte ist weiß ich ebenfalls nicht; halte ihn aber für besser als Metropole. Wenn es weitere Vorschläge gibt können die hier ja ggf. diskutiert werden ...Sicherlich Post 22:27, 3. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Dem kann ich mich nur anschließen; zum Glück wird hier nicht die Gründung einer neuen Metropole oder Megastadt geplant. Übrigens wurde die Bezeichnung dieses Gebildes schon ergiebig diskutiert (Benutzer Diskussion:PetrusSilesius#Metropolregion Kattowitz) und Metropolregion scheint die passendste Bezeichnung zu sein. --PetrusSilesius 11:55, 4. Aug 2006 (CEST)
Namensunstimmigkeiten
[Quelltext bearbeiten]Metropolregion Kattowitz not exist!!! I come from in Metropole Kattowitz. I know. Its true. LUCPOL 13:42, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- This article is not about whether Kattowitz is a Metropole or not, it is about pl:Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny, for which the german name is Metropolregion Kattowitz. And since this is the german-language Wikipedia, this is the correct title. --Gnu1742 13:49, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- please see the headline above for discussion in German. Talks with lucopol you find on his talk page the talkpage of PetrusSilesius and other ...Sicherlich Post 13:55, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Dear Hicherlich. My nick is LUCPOL, not LUCOPOL. Metropolregion Katowitz not exist! Do you get me? NOT EXIST! I come from Katowice. I know, or what? Your from is other country. You wrangle. Why? You must be out of your mind to say this? No offence meant. Your reverted my edits type "Metropole Kattowitz" so changes "Metropolia Katowice" - polish name. Metropolia Katowice is city union, is not metropolregion or aglomeration etc. This is administration metropole. Understand? Metropolregion Kattowitz not exist. LUCPOL 14:04, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Dear Lucpol, I'm sorry for writing your name wrong. ... anyways, as i said more then once; this is the german wikipedia. We speak/write german here. it is for german speaking/understanding people. So we will use the german language as correct as we can. Metropolia Katowice are polish words. according to Wikipedia:Namenskonventionen and the talk on Kattowitz the name of the city is Kattowitz on de. ...Metropolia is a pure polish word and abviously needs translation. In this case I and several others think that a better transaltion is Metropolregion. Just to mention it; i do speak polish but this is anyways not necessary as the article is in german so everybody can read what it is about and decide on the basis of these facts which name fits best. A "word by word" translation is mostly not usefull. ...Sicherlich Post 14:11, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST) (by the way; think about calling a person a vandal; even when you do it on the talk page of a third person in Polish; as i mentioned; i understand polish and the word is anyways not to much differnt from German )
- Dear Sicherlich. I writer english cause my german language is weak. I can polish, silesian and english language. I writer in german wikipedia cause somebody make big error - change name in "Metropolregion Kattowitz". Metropolia Katowice/Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny is not metropolregion! This is city union. I must this correct. PS. There is polish name Łódź etc. - no german name, there is good. Why not polish name "Metropolia Katowice"? Understand? Cool it! This arcicle german name "Metropole Kattowitz" else polish name "Metropolia Katowice". Is not another choice. LUCPOL 14:33, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Dear Lucpol, I'm sorry for writing your name wrong. ... anyways, as i said more then once; this is the german wikipedia. We speak/write german here. it is for german speaking/understanding people. So we will use the german language as correct as we can. Metropolia Katowice are polish words. according to Wikipedia:Namenskonventionen and the talk on Kattowitz the name of the city is Kattowitz on de. ...Metropolia is a pure polish word and abviously needs translation. In this case I and several others think that a better transaltion is Metropolregion. Just to mention it; i do speak polish but this is anyways not necessary as the article is in german so everybody can read what it is about and decide on the basis of these facts which name fits best. A "word by word" translation is mostly not usefull. ...Sicherlich Post 14:11, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST) (by the way; think about calling a person a vandal; even when you do it on the talk page of a third person in Polish; as i mentioned; i understand polish and the word is anyways not to much differnt from German )
- Dear Hicherlich. My nick is LUCPOL, not LUCOPOL. Metropolregion Katowitz not exist! Do you get me? NOT EXIST! I come from Katowice. I know, or what? Your from is other country. You wrangle. Why? You must be out of your mind to say this? No offence meant. Your reverted my edits type "Metropole Kattowitz" so changes "Metropolia Katowice" - polish name. Metropolia Katowice is city union, is not metropolregion or aglomeration etc. This is administration metropole. Understand? Metropolregion Kattowitz not exist. LUCPOL 14:04, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Tommorow, I give following template in up arcicle Metropolregion Kattowitz. -->
- I not to yield an inch. Away bad name "Metropolregion Kattowitz". Metropolia Katowice/GZM is city union and have official name! LUCPOL 14:40, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- if you put this template in the article it will be reverted and this would be pure vandalism from your side. As explained several times and maybe i'll create a template soon --> German Wikipedia --> german language --> polish name ---translation --> german name ... on the way of the translation it happens that words change. Sometimes there are large changes and the word is totaly differnt; sometimes the difference is slightly: see e.g. Falscher Freund (or en:False friend) for examples of mistakes you can do with translations. ... You discussed the topic with different people: with PetrusSilesius you talked in polish; with others in english; so far I only see you who says Metropolregion is wrong. And you wrote about yourself that your german is weak. So what is the point you want to make? That we have to use the polish name as it is in Poland? or your translation as you are from Katowice and thats why it is not required to speak good german to make a translation? ...Sicherlich Post 14:55, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST) PS: the reason for Łódź vs. Kattowitz you find in Wikipedia:Namenskonventionen and the discussions on the talk page of the articles
- I not to yield an inch. Away bad name "Metropolregion Kattowitz". Metropolia Katowice/GZM is city union and have official name! LUCPOL 14:40, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Dear LUCPOL, we do not have a word for "city union" in german language because we do not have city unions (comparable to Metropolia Katowice) in german administration. The German term "Metropole Kattowitz" only means the city of Kattowitz without the other cities of the Metropolia Katowice (Sosnowiec, Gliwice etcetera). The german description "Metropole" means a very important city but it does not mean a city union or the city with its neighbouring cities. The best translation of city union is "Metropolregion". -- Universaldilettant 15:00, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Metropole Kattowitz is not Metropolregion. This is "administrative" city union. Understand?
- Metropole Kattowitz (polish: Metropolia Katowice or Górnośląski Związek Metropolitalny) is official name. Understand?
- Official name entity administrative is more than current name type metropole. Understand?
- Example: if village Kurów (population: 2800) official change name "Metropolia Kurów" (german: Metropole Kurów) it Metropole Kurów listlessly whether metropole is big city but Kurów is small village. Official name entity administrative is main. Understand?
- LUCPOL 15:24, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- The area of a german Metropolregion is defined by the Ministerkonferenz für Raumordnung (Ministerial conference for development planning) whereas a Metropole is not defined by the state. The Metropolia Katowice is a defined area. Thus the polish "Metropolia" corresponds with the the german "Metropolregion". -- Universaldilettant 15:53, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- The official name of the city union is Metropolia Katowice. German "Metropole" for polish "Metropolia" is a false friend because the word has another definition. Such as german "Wüste" is not the same as an english "desert" because it has another scientific definiton. These definitions are similar but not equal. For the lay public it is the same but for a geographer or ecologist there is a slight difference. This case is similar.
- In short: Hä? ;-) In long: Sorry, I don't understand the exact difference.
- In german language "Metropole Kurow" means only Koruw, "Metropolregion Kurow" means Kurow with its neighbouring villages or towns. This article is about Katowice with neighbouring cities. So we have to use "Metropolregion" if we write the lemma in german or "Metropolia" if we write it in polish but we can not translate "Metropolia" to "Metropole". It sounds similar but it has another definition, so that this translation is not correct. -- Universaldilettant 15:53, 5. Aug 2006 (CEST)
- Das aussagekräftige und dem Originalnamen entsprechende Lemma wäre eigentlich Oberschlesischer Zweckverband der Städte. Es ist nämlich ein Zweckverband der (Stadt-)Gemeinden (pl:Związki międzygminne). Shaqspeare 23:56, 22. Feb. 2008 (CET)
Ich sehe, dass ein Streit über dem Namen ständig existiert. Ich übertrug einen Artikel unter dem offiziellen Namen (ohne die Übersetzung). LUCPOL 22:41, 23. Apr. 2008 (CEST)
- das halte ich für keine sinnvolle Lösung. und sehr schlecht finde ich, dass dies passierte ohne das hier vorher mit sprechern der deutschen Sprache diskutiert wurde ...Sicherlich Post 23:12, 23. Apr. 2008 (CEST)
- Ehrlich gesagt habe ich keine Lust mich nochmal mit diesem Artikel zu befassen, da schon x mal dargelegt wurde, dass dieser Zusammenschluss keine Metropole ist, deshalb hatte ich die Verschiebung zum unsinnigen Neologismus Oberschlesischer Metropolenverbund rückgängig gemacht und den Artikel nach Oberschlesische Metropolregion verschoben. Jetzt steht der Artikel erstmal unter seiner poln. Bez., die man wohl als korrekt bezeichnen kann, nun gilt es aber eine adäquate dt. Bezeichnung zu finden, die bisherige war IMO nicht falsch - man könnte den Artikel aber auch, da die poln. Wikipedia von einem związek międzygminny spricht auch eine Bezeichnung Oberschlesischer Städtebund (was eher an mittelalterliche Vorläufer erinnert) oder dergleichen für dieses offensichtlich ziemlich merkwürdige Kunstgebilde ins Auge fassen --PetrusSilesius 18:59, 24. Apr. 2008 (CEST)
- Nimmt doch einfach den Begriff von der offiziellen Internetseite: Oberschlesischer Metropolverband. [1]. Jonny84 21:48, 25. Apr. 2008 (CEST)
- Das hört sich doch gut an...--PetrusSilesius 17:30, 26. Apr. 2008 (CEST)
- Hmm, im Moment kann man den Artikel nicht verschieben. Jonny84 16:00, 16. Mai 2008 (CEST)
Polnisches Lemma in deutscher Wikipedia?
[Quelltext bearbeiten]Es mag zwar für Muttersprachler und Sprachwissenschaftler interessant sein, dass das Lemma im Original geführt wird, nur handelt es sich um die deutsche Wikipedia, die sich an deutsche Leser wendet. Manchmal glaubt man, die deutsche Wikipedia wurde von Dauerstudenten und Beamten besetzt mit einem zerstörerischen Hang zum Kaputtdiskutieren... RIMOLA 01:26, 10. Dez. 2008 (CET)
- uh; "Manchmal glaubt man, ..von Dauerstudenten und Beamten ... zerstörerischen Hang zum Kaputtdiskutieren" - gibt es irgendeinen grund dafür hier einen allgemeinen rundumschlag zu tätigen der mit der Wikiquette so gar nicht in einklang zu bringen ist? ...Sicherlich Post 06:30, 10. Dez. 2008 (CET)
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